The thesis that God is beyond time has sometimes been introduced to account for God’s omniscience or foreknowledge. For Latter-day Saints, as for the Bible, God’s omniscience is “in time.” God anticipates the future. It is “present” before him, but it is still future. When the future occurs, it will occur for the first time to him as to his creatures. The traditional concept of “out-of-time” omniscience does not derive either from the Old or the New Testament but is borrowed from Greek philosophy. -Brigham Young University’s Encyclopedia of Mormonism-

One unique phrase that Joseph Smith brings into The Church’s vocabulary is ‘one eternal round.’ He translates that English phrase three times in The Book of Mormon and uses it in two revelations in the Doctrine and Covenants. At the end of Joseph’s life, he brings the phrase front and center in one of his final sermons titled, ’The King Follet Sermon.’ I have heard this phrase misused to imply that God is timeless and thought it would be worth referencing here to provide the correct context.

In Moroni 7:33-37, Mormon speaks on the power of faith. The middle two verses are full of questions to push us to ponder the reaches of God’s omnipotence and the power that comes from having faith in Him. Mormon’s final question includes, ‘Or will he, so long as time shall last?’ about God. Did Mormon think that time had an end? The full set of questions from verses 35 and 36 include;

Time and the cardinal attribute of enduring (Elder Neal A. Maxwell) In the April 1990 General Conference, Elder Neal A. Maxwell shared a touching message titled, ‘Endure it Well’. He has some great discussion about the benefits of time that is worth reviewing on MostMovedMover. This post should be read along with my two other posts about Elder Maxwell’s views on time (7/19 post and 3/20 post). As we work through his quotes, I highlight a couple of questions about progression, endurance, time, and mortality.

Alma 13:7-9 includes multiple statements about God’s existence concerning beginnings and ends. The verses include references to his foreknowledge and Priesthood’s reality. In my previous post, I discussed Kathleen Flakes response to understanding no beginnings and no ends. This post looks at all of the verses with this reference and LDS commentary around this phrase.

In 2017 Kathleen Flake gave the Annual Neal A. Maxwell Lecture. The entire presentation is engaging and worth your time. I expect to share a few snippets from her presentation in future posts about Joseph Smith and Priesthood insights. This post focuses on a short answer she gave at the end of the discussion about timelessness. I want to imagine what she says is unimaginable. One eternal round means timelessness? The short clip below shows a gentleman asking a question about ‘one eternal round’ and how Kathleen would deal with beginnings and ends.

Many Christians have adopted the Boethian view of a timeless God and then read all scripture to confirm that belief. Many members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints have unwittingly adopted this timeless philosophy when they read scripture. Joseph Smith has a quote about God’s eternal ’now’ that seems to be a prime example of reading with Boethian glasses. This post pulls together references to many other posts to provide my most detailed explanation of latter-day scriptures’ view on God and time to provide a time-based view of the eternal ’now'.

Omniscience is not used in the Bible or Latter-day scripture. This leaves humanity guessing as to whether God agrees with the word He has never used in His revelations. All Christian religions have taken the concept into their vocabulary; However, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has done little to dogmatize the definition of omniscience. Let’s look at the history of omniscience and how various Christian denominations define it.

Joseph Smith’s translation of Fascimile 2 provides a few detailed insights into this question. In the facsimile, there are added numbers which the Book of Abraham labels as Fig. 1 through Fig. 21. Last week, the missionaries visited and brought up Fascimile 2 and asked what I thought about the statement, ‘Figures 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, and 21 will be given in the own due time of the Lord’?

In 2 Nephi 3, Lehi shares with his son Joseph a fascinating revelation that Joseph of Egypt1 saw the Nephite day over a thousand years in the future as well as Joseph Smith’s day over 2000 years farther into the future. This example is often shared with me from my friends when we get farther along with the conversation about the openness of God. It is an excellent example to push us to think about God’s knowledge of the future and how He could know Joseph Smith’s name if His children made free choices from Joseph of Egypt’s day (1700 BC) to 1830 New England times.

In LDS culture, Matthew 24:36 is quoted as witnessing that God knows the exact moment of His second coming. Without the surrounding verses, it is powerful in its statement of God’s knowledge of the future. Jesus says, ‘But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.’ Two analogies wrap verse 36 about nature and seasons that strongly implies a relational view of the timing of the second coming instead of a stopwatch or Japanese train arrival view.

Does God live in Greek time? (Experiencing time as growth). Relational theology focuses on man’s relationship with God. However, in pondering a relationship with God, time is the first concept that throws Christians into a mental tailspin. We can pull out of this death spiral. However, to untangle God and time, we have to understand Eastern and Western (Greek) views of time. I am of the firm opinion that Western perceptions of time do not constrain God.

Does God have wisdom? We discuss many other attributes of God which have a direct similarity in man but are more excellent with God. For example, Mortals understand limited ways to love but understand that God is better at love. Some humans can maintain massive amounts of information in their brains, but God can store an infinite amount. Humans have built technology that allows us to be in many places at once, but God can extend His reach to all locations.

Any of my friends that have been willing to engage me on the concept of a contingent future and openness theology often find the idea persuasive enough to ponder its impacts on scripture. Eventually, they ask a question about the many prophetic statements found in scripture. Their questions fall along the lines of the following, “What about …” the prophecy of the civil war starting in North Carolina by Joseph Smith?

I previously asked, What did Elder Neal A. Maxwell think about time and God? and proposed that he may have tempered his views on fixed future omniscience based on conversations with Blake Ostler. However, I have since found a few more quotes from Neal A. Maxwell after 1984 that are still fairly forceful and I want to add to the record on mostmovedmover.com about his views in this additional post. I hope to be respectful to his words while discussing how they relate to an openness view of God’s future.

Introduction During the early ’90s (I think), my church ran some commercials under the catchphrase, ‘Family, it’s about time.’ One of them is below. I always thought the ads had a great play on the wording. The phrase could imply that it is about time that we focus on the family or that you can’t be family without investing time. It is from those commercials that I build the premise and title of this post.

I have heard Abraham 2:8 often used as a description of the timelessness of God. When friends reference this verse, they have a look that says, ’need I say more about the timelessness of God’ when they say the phrase, ‘God knows the end from the beginning.’ However, that phrase does not need to imply anything about timelessness. I will use Deiter F. Uchtdorf’s See the End from the Beginning April 2006 conference talk and Russell M.

“The great Jehovah contemplated the whole of the events connected with the earth, pertaining to the plan of salvation, before it rolled into existence, or ever ’the morning stars sang together’ for joy; the past, the present, and the future were and are, with Him, one eternal ’now;’ (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 220; History of the Church, 4:597)1. My wife has been reading Forgiving Ourselves: Getting Back Up When We Let Ourselves Down by Wendy Ulrich and shared with me a significant section of her book with an insightful way to understand ’eternal now ‘ where she says,2

As I have studied specific verses around God’s knowledge, I don’t see fixed future omniscience coming from the scripture. Still, I do see how many verses could confirm a preconceived belief in fixed future omniscience. 1 Nephi 7:12-13 and 1 Nephi 9:5-6 are two scriptures blocks that might confirm fixed future omniscience at first read. One of the complicated issues of fixed future omniscience is that it is often a lens that most of Christian society looks through to interpret scripture.

Two posts ago, I talked about truth progressing where I put forth the idea that truth changes in time. I want to take a little more time on this topic and make sure it is clear truth exists and that it is not relative. However, it is relational with us in time, and we must all work together to progress into greater truth. When I hear President Nelson say that “We’re witnesses to a process of restoration” 1, I think I hear progress into greater truth.

Under a timeless model of God, many LDS quote Doctrine and Covenants 93:24 as a statement of truth never changing as it is ‘knowledge of things as they are, and as they were, and as they are to come.’ There are 24 conference references to this verse alone. Many of the references to this verse emphasize truths as never-ending facts that are timeless1. Below are two examples from general conference that highlight how verse 24 is referenced.

More than once in the last year, I have encountered a space-time explanation from friends when we are discussing the topic of God and timelessness. In almost every instance, there is a phrase, something like, “Time is just another dimension. God can just step outside of it. Like in the book Flatland.” Often, they leverage time as a human construct that does not relate to God because one of our leaders talks about timelessness1 and Einstein taught us about space-time.

I have been listening to conference addresses by Apostles and Prophets starting with the April 1971 conference, which is provided on the church’s website or on the Gospel Library app. I have made it to October 19801, and I found Bruce R. McConkie’s, ‘The Lord God of the Restoration message. This general conference message came a few months after the famous, or maybe infamous, The Seven Deadly Heresies talk at BYU in June.

Having previously finished a book on timelessness (see my previous post) and a book about perceiving truth through metaphor and physicality (see my ‘Oh say, What is truth?’ post), I have been pondering the words that are used by God in scripture. In Doctrine and Covenants 93:24 the Lord says, ‘And truth is knowledge of things as they are, and as they were, and as they are to come;’ which is often quoted with Jacob 4:13.

Introduction I am reading The God Who Risks: A Theology of Providence by John Sanders. It is a thorough explanation of openness or relational theology. His writing is clear, and he is sources and footnotes are detailed. In Chapter 6, Risk and the Divine Character, he discusses the varied views of Omniscience (6.5). As I have had discussions with friends, I have heard many of these views explained (without being given a name).

I titled this post after the witty comment made by Nelson Pike in his book titled, ‘God and Timelessness’. The entire book was a careful philosophical and theological evaluation of the argument of timelessness as an attribute of God.1 His actual statement says; St. Thomas says that God’s preservation activity is ‘without either motion or time.’ I wonder if this isn’t a little like saying that when Gabriel blows his horn, he does it while holding his breath.

In Revelation 10:6 we read, And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer: This verse coined the phrase ’that there should be time no longer’ and the context of Revelation 10:6 is around the second coming and the establishment of Zion.

If you Google ‘LDS views on time’ the first article that comes up is an article in LDS living by C. Robert Line titled ‘How Does God’s Time Work? How Can He Listen to All Our Prayers at Once? Robert initially wrote the article in September 2015. Robert repeats quite a few quotes out of context that we have discussed previously. See the following posts as a more detailed and alternate view of how he is referencing a few quotes and scripture.

In Doctrine and Covenants 130:7 we read; But they reside in the presence of God, on a globe like a sea of glass and fire, where all things for their glory are manifest, past, present, and future, and are continually before the Lord. This verse is often quoted as a statement of God’s timelessness by Latter-Day Saints1. However, few remember the question and answer in verses 4 & 5 of this same section.

Words of Mormon 1:3-7 The Book of Mormon consists of multiple books much like the Bible. Within the Book of Mormon there is a book called ‘Words of Mormon’. In Words of Mormon we get some commentary from Mormon about how he compiled the plates which Joseph Smith recieved from Moroni. In verse 3 Mormon discusses how he found a small record from Nephi, Jacob and others. Then in verse 4 we read some statements about prophecy and the future1.

Previously, I referenced Alma 40:8 when I asked Does God live within time? In this post, we will keep our focus on Alma 40:8. It reads; Now whether there is more than one time appointed for men to rise it mattereth not; for all do not die at once, and this mattereth not; all is as one day with God, and time only is measured unto men. This verse can get quoted out of context.

Background: When discussing the openness of God with my friends a few different chapters in the LDS canon pop up in the conversation. These chapters provide a fairly detailed narrative of future events. Sometimes, they even have verses with statements that many LDS have traditionally seen as statements of fixed future omniscience. Two of the most often referenced chapters include; Moses 7: Enoch foresees the coming of the Son of Man, His atoning sacrifice, and the resurrection of the Saints—He foresees the Restoration, the Gathering, the Second Coming, and the return of Zion.

Background The simple answer is yes. The more complicated conversation is in how God exercises faith. I hope to use scripture, the Lectures on Faith, and some insightful commentary around the first lecture to discuss how His faith could be applied.1 Lectures on Faith Latter-Day Saint history has a unique interaction with a set of philosophical notes on faith that were developed by early leaders of our church. For a long time, many would say that Joseph Smith was the author.

Background: My last post about the omniscience of God motivated me to look at the LDS topical guide under God, foreknowledge of. I quickly realized that foreknowledge is a very complicated concept in protestant Christianity and in LDS teachings. Before we tackle the references under God, foreknowledge of, Election, Foreordination, and Predestination we need to work through what each word means, how they relate, and how they are different. One of the issues with each word is that their definitions are nuanced by the various beliefs of each Christian theology.

Background: I wanted to pull all the references from the topical guide under God, Omniscience of to help us get a ‘deeper acquaintance with the word of God.’ In a future post we will look at the topic of God, Foreknowledge of (As a side note, I am developing a small R package to process items from the topical guide). The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints has a Topical Guide to the Scriptures that was initially published in 1979.

Background I have had a few discussions recently where I have been surprised by the answers given concerning God and how he relates to time. Once again, I think many of us are unwittingly letting Aristotle’s unmoved mover philosophy drive our beliefs in God. The scriptures are full of clear statements about God and his relation to time. The Old and New Testaments have a few verses that provide value to this discussion.

Background In “Does God have a Future?” John Sanders explains the open theist view of omniscience and foreknowledge. Here are a few key quotes; I prefer to think of “perfect” in dynamic terms: relational perfection. God is always in perfect relationship with us, and as the relationship changes so God changes. -Pg. 90 First, let me say that Jesus did not experience “powerlessness.” Rather, he exercised the power of love and chose not to use other types of power available to him.

Introduction I have enjoyed reading dialogues between LDS scholars and Evangelical scholars over the last decade with a friend, who is an evangelical pastor, to understand my faith. We started with How Wide the Divide? by Stephen Robinson and Craig Blomberg. I enjoyed Robinson’s writing and have found his writing style enjoyable. I read Believing Christ: The Parable of the Bicycle and Other Good News and Following Christ: The Parable of the Divers and More Good News when I was 18.

I have found two enlightening thinkers in LDS theology. From what I have read and the places that they publish, their work is well respected among LDS religious scholars. They are also recognized in the broader community of theological scholars. David L. Paulsen has been on my radar for years. I have enjoyed all his material on philosophy and theology. Additionally, I have read a couple of articles by Blake T.

Thorleif Boman wrote Hebrew Thought Compared with Greek where he has a 50-page chapter on Time and Space which compares Western thought to Hebrew thought. Here is a more detailed list of quotes from the section. Western minds represent time as a straight line upon which we stand with our gaze directed forward; before us we have the future and behind us the past. On this line we can unequivocally define all tenses by means of points.