When did Christ atone for me? Indeed, it happened in Calvary. It must be his death on the cross that set us free. But didn’t he bleed from every pore On a hill where he suffered in agony? Surely, it happened in that dark time before. Can both be included in his atoning reach? Each moment seems part of his love for me. Yes, his sacrifice was more than one momentary breach.

I previously asked, What did Elder Neal A. Maxwell think about time and God? and proposed that he may have tempered his views on fixed future omniscience based on conversations with Blake Ostler. However, I have since found a few more quotes from Neal A. Maxwell after 1984 that are still fairly forceful and I want to add to the record on mostmovedmover.com about his views in this additional post. I hope to be respectful to his words while discussing how they relate to an openness view of God’s future.

I have been listening to conference addresses by Apostles and Prophets starting with the April 1971 conference, which is provided on the church’s website or on the Gospel Library app. I have made it to October 19801, and I found Bruce R. McConkie’s, ‘The Lord God of the Restoration message. This general conference message came a few months after the famous, or maybe infamous, The Seven Deadly Heresies talk at BYU in June.

In June 1883 The Chautauquan magazine asked, “If a tree were to fall on an island where there were no human beings, would there be any sound?” 1 This is one of those philosophical questions that can create a lively conversation if asked among the correct group. Today, I have a similar question, “If nobody understands the truth, is it still a truth?” I know that I may have already made half of the eight people that read this blog stop reading because they don’t want to have this lively conversation.

Background I first encountered Terryl Givens name while watching ‘The Mormons’ in 2007. He was included as an expert on Latter-day Saint beliefs. He had been publishing in the LDS space since 1997. Around 2014 I listened to him, and Richard Bushman at a Mormon Studies conference at The University of Virginia while visiting my nephew. Wrestling the Angel I just finished Wrestling the Angel and found the book to be thorough in its discussion of the theology of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

Having previously finished a book on timelessness (see my previous post) and a book about perceiving truth through metaphor and physicality (see my ‘Oh say, What is truth?’ post), I have been pondering the words that are used by God in scripture. In Doctrine and Covenants 93:24 the Lord says, ‘And truth is knowledge of things as they are, and as they were, and as they are to come;’ which is often quoted with Jacob 4:13.

I titled this post after the witty comment made by Nelson Pike in his book titled, ‘God and Timelessness’. The entire book was a careful philosophical and theological evaluation of the argument of timelessness as an attribute of God.1 His actual statement says; St. Thomas says that God’s preservation activity is ‘without either motion or time.’ I wonder if this isn’t a little like saying that when Gabriel blows his horn, he does it while holding his breath.

In Luke 18:1-8, Jesus shares the parable of the importuning Widow and Unjust Judge (also called the parable of the persistent widow). In this parable, we learn that persistent prayers receive answers. The parable proposes that prayers can be answered through faithful wearying. The widow petitions the king, and the king ignores her. Finally, the king relents. Not out of compassion but because of her wearying. It looks like the rationale or justness of the request, the king’s character or the woman’s character is not justified or explained.

In Revelation 10:6 we read, And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer: This verse coined the phrase ’that there should be time no longer’ and the context of Revelation 10:6 is around the second coming and the establishment of Zion.

In Doctrine and Covenants 130:7 we read; But they reside in the presence of God, on a globe like a sea of glass and fire, where all things for their glory are manifest, past, present, and future, and are continually before the Lord. This verse is often quoted as a statement of God’s timelessness by Latter-Day Saints1. However, few remember the question and answer in verses 4 & 5 of this same section.

Our challenge: As we listen to oft-quoted phrases, many people take them as facts without finding a source. Once we find a source and validate the quote, then we get the chance to discern the signal from the noise. We could start to recognize the signal with the following questions; What does the quote mean in context? What words in the quote are taken as givens or facts that may not be as clear cut?

Words of Mormon 1:3-7 The Book of Mormon consists of multiple books much like the Bible. Within the Book of Mormon there is a book called ‘Words of Mormon’. In Words of Mormon we get some commentary from Mormon about how he compiled the plates which Joseph Smith recieved from Moroni. In verse 3 Mormon discusses how he found a small record from Nephi, Jacob and others. Then in verse 4 we read some statements about prophecy and the future1.

Previously, I referenced Alma 40:8 when I asked Does God live within time? In this post, we will keep our focus on Alma 40:8. It reads; Now whether there is more than one time appointed for men to rise it mattereth not; for all do not die at once, and this mattereth not; all is as one day with God, and time only is measured unto men. This verse can get quoted out of context.

Introduction I have quoted and will continue to quote elements from BH Robert’s Seventy’s Course in Theology. Since I first read The Mormon Doctrine of Deity at the turn of the century, I have been impressed with his clarity and directness. He was firmly in the Democrat camp when it came to politics. I think his political views and desire to build a theological argument for Mormonism made him a bit of an outsider even though he was a general authority.

The Parable of the Rich Fool In Luke 12:16-21 we read the parable of the rich fool. Before Jesus shares the parable he responds to a petition about worldly wealth with; Watch and beware of all types of greed, because a person’s life is more than the quantity of his possessions. -Luke 12:15 Wayment Translation1- He then shares the parable where the foolish rich man measures his life of possessions and thinks that it defines his soul.

Introduction In John 8:31-32 Jesus makes a bold statement about how we can be free. Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free. To which the group of believers responded, ‘How sayest thou, Ye shall be made free?`. Jesus then states a central point of John 8 & 9 in verse 34.

The testimony of Christ comes from more than historical facts. It comes from more than the biblical witness. It is more significant than knowledge from the living prophets. It reaches farther than the witness in Latter-Day scripture. These witnesses with the testimonies of our forefathers establish a footing that stabilizes our view into His heavens. They provide stability for patient ponderings within our soul. The testimony of Christ lives through the grace of His covenants

Background: My nephew shared this amazing podcast from the Maxwell Institute at Brigham Young University of a conversation between Terryl Givens and Steven Peck. You can watch the video of the podcast below or read the full transcript. I have included a few impactful parts of their conversation that relate to our discussion here at mostmovedmover.com. As I was sharing ideas from this podcast with my daughter, she shared D&C 133:17 and D&C 65:1 where the Lord asks us to ‘make his paths straight.

Background: When discussing the openness of God with my friends a few different chapters in the LDS canon pop up in the conversation. These chapters provide a fairly detailed narrative of future events. Sometimes, they even have verses with statements that many LDS have traditionally seen as statements of fixed future omniscience. Two of the most often referenced chapters include; Moses 7: Enoch foresees the coming of the Son of Man, His atoning sacrifice, and the resurrection of the Saints—He foresees the Restoration, the Gathering, the Second Coming, and the return of Zion.

Background: Recently President Nelson invited the members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints to use the full name of our church in our daily referencing of the church. A few of my friends have taken this pronouncement in different ways. Most have started the journey of changing our historical habits of calling ourselves Mormons. A few have recoiled at President Nelson’s invitation as an attack on statements of our previous prophets.

Background I think many of us are good at applying our daily reading to our lives. This application is essential and has eternal impacts on our lives and our relationship with Deity. We also need to pull scripture together to find a comprehensive meaning. We need to spend the struggle and time to see the big picture - not just the maps and storyline big picture, but the attributes of God big picture.

Background The simple answer is yes. The more complicated conversation is in how God exercises faith. I hope to use scripture, the Lectures on Faith, and some insightful commentary around the first lecture to discuss how His faith could be applied.1 Lectures on Faith Latter-Day Saint history has a unique interaction with a set of philosophical notes on faith that were developed by early leaders of our church. For a long time, many would say that Joseph Smith was the author.

As Latter-Day Saints, we see God as a relational God. In fact, this strong view of loving familial relationships can create misunderstandings by other groups that believe in Christ. Often those that want to attack The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints will drop the question, “Don’t Mormons believe that Jesus and the devil are brothers?”. The question is inflammatory. The underlying concept is that we believe in a pre-mortal existence where we all lived as children of our Heavenly Father.

Background: In October 2017 Elder Ronald A. Rasband shared a message titled, “By Divine Design”. This talk caused a little bit of a stir in my ward. I think the teachers that got a chance to teach this talk in a lesson at church may have over-interpreted his talk and created a false idea that Elder Rasband was not promoting. I heard about two different teachers getting a little exasperated at how the talk seemed to imply that God controlled every moment in our lives and neither of them could work out how that could be true.

Background: My last post about the omniscience of God motivated me to look at the LDS topical guide under God, foreknowledge of. I quickly realized that foreknowledge is a very complicated concept in protestant Christianity and in LDS teachings. Before we tackle the references under God, foreknowledge of, Election, Foreordination, and Predestination we need to work through what each word means, how they relate, and how they are different. One of the issues with each word is that their definitions are nuanced by the various beliefs of each Christian theology.

Background: I wanted to pull all the references from the topical guide under God, Omniscience of to help us get a ‘deeper acquaintance with the word of God.’ In a future post we will look at the topic of God, Foreknowledge of (As a side note, I am developing a small R package to process items from the topical guide). The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints has a Topical Guide to the Scriptures that was initially published in 1979.

Background I have had a few discussions recently where I have been surprised by the answers given concerning God and how he relates to time. Once again, I think many of us are unwittingly letting Aristotle’s unmoved mover philosophy drive our beliefs in God. The scriptures are full of clear statements about God and his relation to time. The Old and New Testaments have a few verses that provide value to this discussion.

Background In “Does God have a Future?” John Sanders explains the open theist view of omniscience and foreknowledge. Here are a few key quotes; I prefer to think of “perfect” in dynamic terms: relational perfection. God is always in perfect relationship with us, and as the relationship changes so God changes. -Pg. 90 First, let me say that Jesus did not experience “powerlessness.” Rather, he exercised the power of love and chose not to use other types of power available to him.

Background In God of the possible by Gregory Boyd he makes an eloquent argument about the joy of our sociality as humans and how this relates to traditional views of the exhaustive foreknowledge of God. In light of the Latter-Day Saint view on the sociality of heaven being similar to our current existence, I found his argument enlightening. He asked some great questions in the quotes below. Why would this eternally static view of divine knowledge be greater than a view of God enjoying novelty, adventure, spontaneity, creativity, and moment-by-moment personal relationships?

In Elder Holland’s book titled, Christ and the New Covenant, I first encountered the fascinating idea that God could change his behavior based on our prayers and faith. This paragraph stretched my mind. A final explanation-and in terms of the brother of Jared’s faith the most persuasive one-is that Christ was saying to the brother of Jared, “Never have I showed myself unto man in this manner, without my volition, driven solely by the faith of the beholder.

Background About three years ago my friend Nathan Richardson shared a paper with me by Dr. Richard L. Pratt, Jr. titled Historical Contingencies and Biblical Predictions that had some insightful ideas about prophets and prophecies. Dr Pratt, like most Protestant Christians, shares ideas within a historical perspective of the Bible. As Latter-Day Saint Christians, we believe in a living reality of prophets and prophecies. So his thoughts resonated with my views on the Bible as well as my opinions of living prophets and prophecy.

Introduction I have enjoyed reading dialogues between LDS scholars and Evangelical scholars over the last decade with a friend, who is an evangelical pastor, to understand my faith. We started with How Wide the Divide? by Stephen Robinson and Craig Blomberg. I enjoyed Robinson’s writing and have found his writing style enjoyable. I read Believing Christ: The Parable of the Bicycle and Other Good News and Following Christ: The Parable of the Divers and More Good News when I was 18.

I have found two enlightening thinkers in LDS theology. From what I have read and the places that they publish, their work is well respected among LDS religious scholars. They are also recognized in the broader community of theological scholars. David L. Paulsen has been on my radar for years. I have enjoyed all his material on philosophy and theology. Additionally, I have read a couple of articles by Blake T.

The following is the full excerpt from the chapter on the brother of Jared in Christ and the New Covenant. I have added the various emphases. Before examining the doctrinal truths taught in this divine encounter, it will be useful to note two seemingly problematic issues here, issues that seem to have reasonable and acceptable resolutions. The first consideration rises from two questions the Lord asked the brother of Jared: “Why hast thou fallen?

President Wilford Woodruff shared this story in his journal. He was the third president of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. On the 23rd of November my wife, Phoebe, was attacked with a severe headache, which terminated in brain fever. She grew more and more distressed daily as we continued our journey. It was a terrible ordeal for a woman to travel in a wagon over rough roads, afflicted as she was.